Please skim Books 3 and 7 of Herodotus' Histories. You might find particularly helpful Book III, Section 80 and Book VII, Sections 10-20, 28, 35, 51, 61, 135 and 140.We've agreed that a good history should be interesting--and, occasionally, funny as well. From these sections, pick out a Herodotus story that seems to you to be particularly interesting or particularly amusing. Explain why you like this particular story.
By the way, two ID's for the midterm are HERODOTUS STORY I, and HERODOTUS STORY II. You will be able to use any Herodotus story you choose for these ID's.
I find the story on Chapter 7 section 135 interesting. I like this story because 2 men of Greece stand for freedom against the Persians. Hydarnes, from Persia, tries to convince to people from Greece that if they lay down they would be rewarded by the Persian king and probably given riches. But then Lacedaemonians responds, "the advice you give us does not spring from a full knowledge of the situation. You know one half of what is involved, but not the other half. You understand well enought what slavery is, but freedom you have never experienced, so you do not know if it tastes sweet or bitter. If you ever did come to experience it, you would advise us to fight for it not with spears only, but with axes too." I absolutely love this line. Freedom is the theme for many movies these days but I've never heard it better described then this. It shows how admirable Greeks were and how they were willing to die for freedom.
ReplyDeleteJon Redmond
The story I chose was in chapter 7 section 10h. Artabanus, Xerxes Uncle, spoke about his reservation for invading Greece when nobody else would. Artabanus thinks it is a very dangerous proposition that many not end up well. There were to many things that could have gone wrong. He ends his speech with this quote. "Let the king stay here in Persia; and you and I will then stake our children on the issue, and you can start the venture with the men you want and as big an army as you please. And if the king prospers, as you say he will, then I consent that my sons should be killed, and myself with them; if my own prediction is fulfilled, let your sons forfeit their lives - and you too - if you ever get home."
ReplyDeleteThis took a lot of guts as Artabanus suggests to kill the king is his plan doesn't work. He is lucky he was not killed for suggesting something so foolish. This quote also drew my attention because of the political issues we face today.
The story about how the Greeks stood up against a Persian Monarchy is interesting to me. They understood very well how dangerous a monarchy can be to society as a whole. The Greeks knew that one man with too much power and no responsibility for his actions would lead to savage acts of violence. This is interesting to me because the Greeks had not really seen the effects of monarchy that often.
ReplyDeleteRobbi Kannas
I liked the stories that dealt with the Greeks standing up against the Persians. It showed the strength of the Greeks as a whole and what lengths they would go to keep themselves together.
ReplyDelete-Alicyn Even
The stories that I found most interesting were the ones about the Persians and the Greeks. I think these passages are important because they show us the mindset of the Greeks and what they were capable of.
ReplyDelete-Brianna Hamil
I enjoyed some particular excerpts from book 7 on pages 459 and 460. I liked reading About Xerxes and getting to know what he was like. You can really sense his pompous side by the way he speaks to the Spartans, claiming he's better than Sparta and he won't kill the Spartans for nothing like they did to his messengers.
ReplyDeleteR. Casey Oberle
The story that I found most interesting was in book 7, part 35. In it, Herodotus describes the failure of Xerxes' bridge at the Hellespont, and his subsequent rage in the aftermath. This showed just how angry Xerxes could get, and know matter how much planning and effort, you still cannot conquer mother nature. Also, no matter how much of a tantrum Xerxes would throw later, it still couldn't account for the fact the damage was done.
ReplyDeleteI found section 25 in Book 3 to be very interesting. Cambyses had sent spies to Ethiopia and upon hearing what they had to report from the Ethiopian king he immediately sent his armies to invade. In this rash decision he didn't think about making proper plans for supplying his forces, towards the end they were forced to eat each other to survive. I think it's interesting that such "great" leaders would make errors of this magnitude.
ReplyDeleteIn Book 3 section 80, I found the entirety of it interesting. Otanes starts telling the Greeks that no one man should have to rule because of all the power that would be given to them. They would go mad and make everybody else do what they wanted instead of listening to what should be done. So, it is better to: 'do away with the monarchy, and raise the people to power; for the state and the people are synonymous terms.'
ReplyDeleteI also found Book 7 section 10 to be very interesting as well. Artabanus, Xerxes uncle, is basically telling Xerxes that it is not a good idea to go up against the Greeks. He also says that he sees in a prophecy that if Xerxes does go up against the Greeks, they will not win and the Greeks will basically kick their butts. I find this reading interesting because Xerxes gets this information from his own uncle and he doesn't listen to him. Obviously we know how the story goes and I wonder why is he, Xerxes, being big headed and wanting to risk it all when no good will come out of it because of his uncles prophecy.
In Book 3, Section 80, Otanes gives a speech promoting democracy and denouncing the monarchistic system. He explains that giving so much power to a single individual leads to despotism. Rather than being content with what he has, a king becomes jealous and paranoid, his actions ungoverned and erratic, even if he had previously been just and moral. This seems to be the forebear of the saying "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." This is an interesting sentiment, coming from a Persian. Herodotus does explain that some did not believe that this speech actually took place, but it would have been very appealing to the Greeks, nonetheless, especially the Athenians.
ReplyDeleteXerxes' later actions as he accompanied his army on the warpath certainly prove Otanes' point. He punishes Pythius, a man he had previously honored, simply because he requested that his heir be left behind to oversee his affairs. Xerxes also believed he could dominate nature itself (or, more properly, the gods that controlled nature). In Sect. 35, Book 7, he even has the Hellespont flogged for destroying his bridge, thinking he could force the water itself to submit to him.
I think the first part of Book VII was an interesting story. Essentially, Xerxes didn't originally want to go to war, though he officially announced it, and his uncle was also dissuading it. He ends up having a couple dreams about a man that tells him he leads his kingdom into destruction if he won't conquer Greece first. The first dream was disregarded, but the second dream caused him to wake and go to his uncle.
ReplyDeleteHe bade him swap clothing and places, and to sleep in his bed, and he had a similar message with the same guy, only more hostile. They ultimately decided to go to war based on this dream. What was also interesting about this was, Xerxes uncle Artabanus told him where dreams really come from, and it's not the gods.
I find this interesting because they based so much on dreams back then, but this also reminds me a lot of events that occured in the Bible. Especially around the time of Joseph, deciphering the pharaoh's dreams.
--Aaron Johnston
The beginning of Book VII was very interesting. It described Darius's frustration with Athens and how he wanted to attack. However, he could not take his army to Greece until he named a successor. This created a major issue between Artabazanes and Xerxes, both Darius's eldest sons from different mothers.
ReplyDeleteOddly enough, the argument was settled by the exiled Spartan King, Demaratus. He said that since Darius was already on the throne when Xerxes was born, Xerxes was the rightful heir to the throne. Xerxes of course stood behind this idea, and he was publicly proclaimed the next in succession.
I also like the fact that Herodotus out-rightly says he believes that Xerxes deserved to be heir simply because his mother, Atossa, was very powerful, being the daughter of Cyrus.
This shows how little things determine history on a great scale. Had the advice of a Spartan exiled king never been uttered, maybe Artabazanes been heir to the throne. Had he been king rather than Xerxes, maybe Persia would not have invaded Greece, or maybe Persia would have won.
I picked a story from book 7 section 26 where the army is crossing the Halys and passing through the Phrygia to Celaenae becuase the words are so descriptive and can paint a picture of what is going on in this particular spot.
ReplyDelete--Katelyn Pietz
I picked a story from book 7 section 26 where the army is crossing the Halys and passing through the Phrygia to Celaenae becuase the words are so descriptive and can paint a picture of what is going on in this particular spot.
ReplyDelete--Katelyn Pietz
The story that I found really good was the one in chapter 7 part 135. The two men who decide that they are willing to die for the messenger that the Spartans killed. These two men were even brave enough, when they went to sacrifice themselves, threatened the men who received them. They were offered to live like Kings in Greece after the Persians take over, but to this they told the Persians that the only reason that they can live as slaves is because the were never free. They then threaten that if taken over they would come at the Persians with spears and axes.
ReplyDeleteBaker Haar
Although many passages are amusing, one I thought was particularity amusing is the story of Demaratus and Xerxes in Chapter 7, sections 102-104. Xerxes asks Demaratus, a Greek native, if he thinks the Greeks will successfully attack his army and is promised no harm to be done regardless of Demaratus’ opinion. Demaratus, still reluctant, replies that specifically the Spartans are to be feared and will not back down from Xerxes and his Persian Army. Demaratus explains how the Spartans are an outstanding unified force, whose numbers are irrelevant. Xerxes becomes utterly offended, laughs at his friend and feels his words are “nothing but an empty boast.” After the conversion, Xerxes does let Demaratus leave unharmed. Such outcome is seemingly contrary to other stories of individuals disagreeing with the Persian king, which is partially why I thought this passage was amusing. Also, I think it’s interesting to read a forward to the classic 300 Spartan man army, the Persian King’s confidence is obvious and he doesn’t seem to have any fear/worry. Knowing the story it’s interesting how things play out in the Persian Wars.
ReplyDeleteIn Book VII in section 135, Herodotus writes, "If you ever did come to experience it [freedom], you would advise us to fight for it not with spears only, but with axes too." What Sperchias and Bulis have to say here to a man who is very rich and has almost everything a man could want is truly amusing. I wouldn't be surprised if Hydarnes busted up laughing as soon as he heard that freedom via bloodshed would make even him happier! The stark contrast of viewpoints is both funny, ironic, and amusing.
ReplyDelete- Jefferson Gunderson
I liked the story in Book VII, Section 10-20 where Artabanus was trying to convince Xerxes not to attack the Greeks. He goes on and on to him about how God will smite the great ones with thunder, how great buildings and tall trees are the ones which are hit by lightning, and how great armies are destroyed by little ones. Finally he says that if that doesn't convince him not to attack the Greeks, then he makes another plan that Xerxes and himself go forward with attack and let the king stay in Persia. If the king prospers then Artabanus and his sons will be killed, but if Artabanus's prediction is true, then Xerxes and his sons will forfeit their lives. Xerxes gets mad at Artabanus and tells him he has to stay home with the women. But what he said makes Xerxes think and then he changed his mind and decided that the invasion of Greece would not be a good thing. Then Xerxes started having the dreams with the phantom and believes he has no choice but to invade. The part I thought was rather amusing was that Xerxes wanted to see if Artabanus had the same dream, so he asked him if he would put on his clothes and sit on his throne and sleep in his bed. Artabanus thought this was pretty silly too, but he still does it. He has the same dream and now believes that God is involved in the plan to ruin Greece. So they go forward with the plan. Artabanus really changed his mind because he was the one who told Xerxes that God will smite the great ones. It just shows how much importance they placed on dreams and visions and stuff like that.
ReplyDeleteMichael Abu-Sirriya