Homer's works were in some ways the closest thing the Greeks had to a Bible. If one wanted authoritative teaching about the gods and about their dealings with mankind, one turned to Homer. Passages culled from the Iliad and the Odyssey served as "proof texts" for any point one might try to make. Likewise, Homer's writings were also the starting point for later "inspired" writers--the poets and playwrights of ancient Greece. But Homer's works are a very strange sort of Bible, and it's not always easy to say exactly what his religious views were.Please read the Iliad study questions on the syllabus, and then as much of you can of Books I-VI. Cite here a line or incident that shows how the Iliad is like a Bible or how it makes a very strange "Bible."
Brek-ek-ek-ek-coax-coax.
One page 150, Menelaus is struck by an arrow breaking the sacred vow. "Look how the men of Try have laid you low, trampling down our solemn, binding truce! But they will never go for nothing,the oaths, the blood of the lambs, the unmixed wine we pured, the firm clasp of the right hand we trusted."
ReplyDeleteThis is an example of a religious tradition that may have been passed down as a way to honor the gods. You can see these sorts of stories getting passed down in other religions, and in the bible.
"So Tydides prayed and Athena heard his prayer, put spring in his limbs, his feet, his fighting hands and close behind him winged him on with a flight of orders: 'Now take heart, Diomedes, fight it out with the Trojans! Deep in you chest I've put your father's strength.'" (168)
ReplyDeleteHere is an example of how the Iliad is like the bible. Tydides was battling and struggling so he prayed and a god gave him the strength he needed to keep fighting. Have faith and put trust in God is a common theme in the bible and the message is similar in this passage.
Jon Redmond
"But loud clamorous cries resounded throughout the Trojan host: for they had not one speech and one language, but a confusion of tongues, since they were called from many lands. They were like a huge flock of ewes innumerable standing in a wide farmyard to be milked, which bleat without ceasing as they hear the cries of their lambs." The Iliad, Book IV, P. 56
ReplyDeleteThis is like the story of the Tower of Babel in the Bible, where the people were trying to build a tower to get to heaven instead of trusting God, so then God made all the different people speak different languages and they couldn't understand each other, so it was hard to work together and get it done.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete"The old man was terrified...And moving off to a safe distance, over and over the old priest prayed to the son of sleek-haired Leto, lord Apollo, 'Hear me, Apollo! God of the silver bow who strides the walls of Chryse and Cilla sacrosanct--lord in power of Tenedos--Smintheus, god of the plague! If I ever roofed a shrine to please your heart, ever burned the long rich bones of bulls and goats on your holy altar, now, now bring my prayer to pass. Pay the Danaans back--your arrows for my tears!'
ReplyDeleteHis prayer went up and Phoebus Apollo heard him. Down he strode from Olymus' peaks, storming at heart with his bow and hooded quiver slung across his shoulders. The arrows clanged at his back as the god quaked with rage...Over against the ships he dropped to a knee, let fly a shaft and a terrifying clash rang out from the great silver bow. First he went for the mules and circling dogs but then, launching a piercing shaft at the men themselves, he cut them down in droves--and the corpse-fires burned on, night and day, no end in sight."
This part caught my attention for a few reasons. First, it shows how one can pray to whichever God one prefers. The old man, Chryses, obviously looked to Apollo most of all. Second, it shows how doing wrong in ancient Greece can be a bad idea...karma in a Greek sense. Third, it explains what causes an illness, a plague. Wielding his bow and quiver of arrows, Apollo launches the plague unto beast and man for 9 days.
Like our bible and literature of other religions, these stories teach how one should act, why one should act that way, explains how natural phenomena occur.
"And so Agamemnon prayed bu the son of Cronus would ot bring his prayer to pass, not yet...the Fahther accepted the sacrifices, true, but doubled teh weight of thankless, ruthless war."
ReplyDeleteI think that this line shows us that this is like a Bible because it talks about how the men prayed and who they pray to.
-Alicyn Even
"'I must - when the two of you hand down commands, Goddess, a man submits though his heart breaks with fury. Better for him by far. If a man obeys the gods they're quick to hear his prayers.'"
ReplyDeleteI think this line shows that like the Bible if man obeys God or the gods, his prayers are more likely to be answered.
~ Robbi Kannas
"Come, now for attack! We'll set all this to rights, someday, if Zeus will ever let us raise the winebowl of freedom high in our halls, high to the gods of cloud and sky who life forever-- once we drive these Argives geared for battle out of Troy!" pg 213
ReplyDeleteI feel that this example shows that Iliad is like the Bible becuase you have people coming together in a belif of a higher power inorder to fight a battle. Everyone has to have a faith in something higher then yourself and i belive that this passage shows this, just as the bible tells stories of people uniting under their faith in God.
"As Achaeans and Trojans wondered what was coming, Athena merged in the Trojan columns like a fighter."
ReplyDeleteThis passage, like many others talks about how the Gods and Mortals interact. it shows how humans and gods interacted, and maybe should interact on a daily basis. though this is like our bible, it is quite different at the same time because Homer makes it seem that the Gods appear as real people in everyday life.
"So he mocked as Athena and Queen Hera muttered between themselves buddled together plotting Troys destruction. True Athena held her peace and said nothing... smoldering at the ather, seized with wild resentment. But Hera could hold the anger in her breast no longer, suddenly bursting out, "Dread majesty, son of Cronus, what are you saying? How can you think of making all my labor worthless, all gone for nothing?" pg. 146
ReplyDeleteI feel this part is interesting when compared to the bible because you see that Gods meant for people to worship argueing amongst themselves, and Zeus going on to threaten his wife over the arguement. It just seems strange how some of the morals portrayed by the gods are crooked by todays ways yet they were still feared and worshipped in their time.
-Baker Haar
"Theano took the rover and laid it on the knees of the goddess, and then she offered her prayer and vow: 'Queen Athena, goddess divine, saviour of our city! Do Thou break the spear of Diomedes, and strike him to the ground before the Scaian gates! Then we will sacrifice to thee in this temple twelve yearling heifers that never felt the goad, if only thou wilt have compassion upon our town and the wives and little children of Troy!' So the priestess prayed, but Athea refused her prayers."
ReplyDeleteThis passage shows how The Illiad is like a Bible. There are several cases in the Bible in which people pray, and their prayers are heard, but God does not grant them what they want if it is not His will. As humans, it is important to accept whatever a high power has in store for us.
-Brianna Hamil
"[Ares] burst out in a flight of self-pity: "Father Zeus, aren't you incensed to see such violent brutal work? We everlasting gods . . . Ah what chilling blows we suffer - thanks to our own conflicting wills - whenever we show these mortal men some kindness." (5.1006)
ReplyDeleteAres whined to Zeus after he had been "dismissed" from the battle by Athena. However, earlier in Book V, Ares had agreed with Athena to leave the mortals to "fight it out for themselves." (5.36) In response to the whining of Ares, Zeus rebukes him saying that Ares is a liar, two-faced and hated "most of all the Olympian gods." (5.1028-30)
The Iliad makes a very strange Bible in that while it sets out examples for the interactions between mortals and gods, the gods fail to regularly "follow the formula." In fact, they have quite a number of relationship issues among themselves and are at times using mortals as pawns in their own feuds. Zeus himself is divided and at times promised that the Trojans will both win and lose. He is also conflicted by his own loyalty to the Trojans. Even though the Trojans go through all the motions to seek the help of Athena, she ignores their prayers because she's already chosen to side with the Achaeans. Mortals will have a difficult time interacting with the gods because the gods have already chosen sides and will ignore prayers from the other side or worse, the gods are unable to choose a side and are inconsistent with their support of the mortals.
Ares makes a key observation when he states, "what chilling blows we suffer - thanks to our own conflicting wills" - conflicted wills that exist not only among the gods but within some of the gods as well.
Her grey eyes clear, the goddess Athena answered, "Down from the skies I come to check your rage if only you will yield. The white-armed goddess Hera sped me down: she loves you both, she cares for you both alike. stop this fighting, now. Don't lay hand to the sword.
ReplyDeleteThis is similar of course to the Gospel of Matthew in the agony of the garden when Jesus says" those who live by the sword shall die by the sword."
Joseph Adam
Homer portrays the gods in this story as exaggerated forms of humans. In Book V, Diomedes wounds two of them, Aphrodite and Ares, at the behest of Athena, showing that while the gods were immortal, they were not invincible.
ReplyDeleteThe gods were obviously beings to fear and respect, but they could not be trusted. In Book IV, Athena appears before Pandaros, the archer, to goad him into shooting at Menelaos. She wanted the battle to begin, so that she could actually aid the Achaians.
Ares and Zeus both aided either side of the conflict, based on their mood at the moment, or which favor they were trying to repay. They lied and broke promises not only to men, but also to one another. They were even more fickle than the humans in this story.
All these characteristics, vulnerability, deceit, and fickleness, seem to be odd qualities in divine beings. That is what makes the works of Homer a very odd sort of Bible. Monotheistic works such as the Old and New Testaments are, in essence, a contract between God and Man, one only men break.
"weeping he spoke; his Goddess-mother heard, beside her aged father where she sat in the deep ocean-caves: ascending quick through the dark waves..." This section of the story we begin to see the makings of a Greek bible. Much like the OT of the Bible itself we see a person with a hardship in his life and then, in this case, we see a Goddess's response to the mans problem. The story here gives us guidance and a feeling of what is important the Goddess. It also gives us the relationship between the goddess and man.
ReplyDeleteMuch like the Bible the Iliad forms a relationship history of the Greek Gods and mankind. It gave the Greeks a story to help them relate to their religion. In the first five books we can also see an importance in certain character traits to the Greeks. Behind the story it is possible to see a way that Homer felt the Greeks should live their lives.
Book 4: "What is this word that broke through the fence of your teeth, Atreides? How can you say that, when we Achaians waken the bitter war god on Trojans, breakers of horses, I hang back from fighting? Only watch, if you care to and if it concerns you, the very father of Telemachos locked with the champion Trojans, breakers of horses. Your talk is wind, and no meaning"
ReplyDeleteThis is strange to the bible because it is talk about two Gods that one is a type of god that bring loser type mentality of fighting, and one bring a champion mentality and that they look to more than one god for strength and what not.
“Then Agamemnon lord of men spoke to them: ‘Trojans, Greeks and allies, listen to me. Menelaus has clearly won. Now give up Helen from Argos and all her property and make compensation on a scale that future generations will remember.’ So spoke the son of Atreus, and the Greeks all applauded.” (line 460, end of book 3)
ReplyDeleteThis passage reminded me of the Bible because of the preaching aspect Agamemnon portrays. Similar to the prophets, saints, or even Jesus in the Bible, he addresses his ideas very publically and with the future in mind. Frequently, Bible verses prophesize the importance of the upcoming events either in reference to ending one’s life in heaven or also for the human race. Additionally, in declaring Menelaus’ victory, the excitement seemed to be as awe inspiring to the Greeks as a bible story where Jesus preforms a miracle. In exciting the crowd who listened, the verse also reminds me of the bible. Both the Iliad and the Bible seem to have other similar aspects and obviously there are many other versus that supports this idea. I choose this verse partially because its short length; I thought it was interesting that something as small as Agamemnon’s declaration could resemble various familiar biblical themes.
"Hear me, Apollo! God of the silver bow who strides the walls of Chryse and Cilla sacrosanct - lord in power of Tenedos - Smintheus, god of the plague! If I ever roofed a shrine to please your heart, ever burned the long rich bones of bulls and goats on your holy altar, now, now bring my prayer to pass. Pay the Danaans back - your aros for my tears." (lines 42 - 50, Book I, page 78)
ReplyDeleteThis passage shows how the Iliad is similar to the Bible in many ways. First off, this passage is a prayer. Although the Greeks had multiple gods, they still prayed. This prayer was spoken by a priest, showing that they had holy people who were connected with the gods, much as people use priests and ministers to connect with their own God. They also mention sacrificing bulls and goats to appease the gods and ask for their honor. This was a ritualistic practice for them, and there are many rituals that came from the Bible.
"But Zeus who marshals storm clouds lowered a dark glance and let loose at Ares: "No more, you lying, two-faced...no more sidling up to me, whining here before me. You--I hate you most of all the Olympian gods. Always dear to your heart, strife, yes, and battles, the bloody grind of war. You have your mother's uncronttollable rage--incorrigible, that Hera..."
ReplyDeleteThis is just one of many heated and emotional confrontations between the gods in the Iliad. Homer, amongst others, portrayed their gods with a human-like emotion, and sometimes to an extreme, which I find interesting because it seems to bring them down more to our level. Portaying them this way is a great way to relate to the gods though, and it enables us to possibly perceive why they might be reacting the way they are. It's also interesting that though they may act almost, if not, completely human, they still obtain the respect they desire from the humans. Some examples of Olympian god emotions are love, hate, jealousy, happiness...the list goes on.
In the Bible there are plenty of examples of when God shows His emotions as well, though maybe not so much with the way He carries Himself like the Greek gods do. He still delivers the impact necessary and gets the response He might desire, like obedience. This also enables us to relate on another level with God with what He is feeling at the time. At times He has called Himself a jealous God, and He can obviously be angered. Just look at the old testament. But He is also just, which sets Him far apart from the Greek gods. He also loves unconditionally.
This is but one similarity and yet difference I found with correlating the two compendium of books, and I would say it's more a strange version of a bible.
-Aaron Johnston
And the matchless runner reassured him: "Courage! Out with it now, Calchas. Reveal the will of god, whatever you may know. And I swear by Apollo dear to Zeus, the power you pray to, Calchas, when you reveal god's will to the Argives-no one, not while I am alive and see the light on earth, no one will lay his heavy hands on you by the hollow ships."
ReplyDeleteThis is like the bible in the sense that Achilles is telling Calchas to have no fear and to have faith in what he knows. Just as God and the bible tell us to have faith in something God has shown us or told us even if we are not quite sure on it. Achilles is offering Calchas protection for his faithfulness just as God would to us.
From Page 80
Roy Casey Oberle
"The immortal Gods who hold Olympus clash no more, Hera's appeals have brought them round and all agree; griefs from Zeus are about to crush the men of Troy!But keep this message firmly in your mind. Remember- let no loss of memory overcome you when the sweet grip of slumber sets free."
ReplyDeleteI think this could make for a very weird bible because it has more than one God discussing matters of fighting and war. It has the head God talking about destroying a type of people. (people of Troy)
Tom Quigg