Please read as much as you can of Books VII-XVII. If you like, you may skim over the descriptions of the actual fighting. These scenes are exciting (and important), but it's not essential for you to try to follow the ebb and flow of the battles: I'll summarize that for you in class. Books 9,14,15, and 16 are probably the most helpful in giving you material for your potential exam essay.As you read through this material, note especially the attempts to mend the relationship between Agamemnon and Achilles, the very odd scene between Zeus and Hera, and Zeus' lament about fate.
For the blog, choose one incident/passage from these books that reminds you of something in the Bible or that differs substantially from the kind of thing one might expect to find in a Bible.
"I know I canoverpower this dazzling Hector. But come, while I strap my battle-armor on, all of you pray to Cronus' son, almighty Zeus. Pray to yourselves in silence, so Trojans cannot hear--no, pray out loud! No one at all to fear. No one can rout me--his will against my will--bit by force, god knows, and not by a sly maneuver either."
ReplyDelete-Alicyn Even
“… They were all loggerheads with Zeus who darkens the clouds, because he wished to give the Trojans the glory. But Father Zeus cared nothing for the gods. He had slipped away from them and sat down on his own a long way off, exulting in his glory and looking down on the Trojan town and the Greek ships, on the flashing bronze, the killers and the killed.”
ReplyDeleteI think a prominent difference between the Bible and Homer’s work is the portrayal of gods versus the emphasis on the one, true God in the bible. I chose this passage because it portrays the gods with humanistic like characteristics, as do many other passages in The Iliad. The Bible describes God as true, just, and perfect in every way; whereas the numerous gods in the text seemingly have their faults. Such as in the noted passage, Zeus favoring a side in battle doesn’t seem to be a likely thing to happen in the Bible. Other examples can be supportive of this idea too; for example, the goddesses frequently use their beauty to create a favorable outcome. I liked this passage specifically, however, because although it doesn’t necessarily exemplify a fault of the god, it does show how Zeus has to deal with problems/emotions like humans.
"and powerful Diomedes bowed to her at once;
ReplyDelete"Well I know you, Goddess, daughter of storming Zeus, and so I will tell you all, gladly. I'll hide nothing. It'ss not somelifeless fear that paralyzes me now, no flinching from combat either. it's your own command still riging in my ears, forbidding me to fight the immortals head-on."
I feel that this is like the bible in a sence that a commandment has come down from the gods and is so powerful that it is still ringing in the ears of the one that heard it and is ment to be followed
"'Now then you two-may God put it in your heart to stand firm and encourage the others to hold out. Then you can keep him away from the ships, try as he may, even if the Olympian himself drives him on!'
ReplyDeleteAs he spoke, Earthshaker gave each a tap with his wand and filled them with stern courage. He made their limbs light, the feet and the hands upon them."
This passage reminds me of the Bible because one person pretty much prayed for courage and his prayer was answered by a god.
-Brianna Hamil
"So he mocked as Athena and Queen Hera muttered between themselves, huddled together, plotting Troy's destruction."
ReplyDeleteThis passage differs from the Bible for a couple reasons. The first, and most obvious, reason is that there is only one God in the Bible, whereas two goddesses are talking here and another is mentioned. Secondly, the gods and goddesses are on opposite sides. God in the Bible would never go against himself, so this scene differs.
"There is nothing more alive agonized than man of all that breathe and crawl across the earth."
ReplyDeleteThis passage is spoken by Zeus, who is a god, and it shows that he understands the pain and suffering as a result of Patroclus's death. Of all the creatures alive, man is the most to suffer because he sometimes knows that certain things have to happen as planned, like Achilles and Hector both know they will die an early death.
This is similiar to the Bible in that God has our lives planned out, and sometimes things happen which maybe we don't understand, but God understands them and is there with us during them.
"Fighting words, and Ares pounded his sturdy thighs with the flats of both hands and let loose in grief: "Now, you gods of Olympus--who could blame me now if I descend on Arcaea's ships to avenge my son"
ReplyDeleteThis is much different from the Bible. First of all there our gods when the Bible only had one god. But the other big difference is the fact that he wants revenge for his son. In the Bible revenge is not a good thing and Jesus dies and suffers. Here the theme is to get revenge.
Jon Redmond
But finally clear-eyed Athena rose and spoke: "Our father, son of Cronus, high and mighty, we already know your power, far too well...who can stand against you?"
ReplyDeleteThis resembles the bible in the way of saying what person, regardless of social rank, can stand against God and go against his words or actions. Just the same as gods and goddesses cannot go against Zeus' will, mortal people cannot go against God's will. Moreover, it shows a major difference between the Iliad and the Bible because in the Iliad there are multiple gods and goddesses whereas in the Bible there is only one god.
Roy Casey Oberle
"So Great Ajax vaunted and men prayed to the son of Cronus, King Zeus. They'd call out, scanning the wide sky, 'Father Zeus -- ruling over us all from Ida, god of greatness, glory! Now let Ajax take this victory, shining triumph! But if you love Hector, if you hold him dear, at least give both men equal strength and glory."
ReplyDeleteThis reminds me of the Bible because they are asking for a win but with equal strength for both sides. It shows that they are asking for help from the gods, but they also want fairness like the principles given in the Bible.
So Achilles prayed and Zeus in all his wisdom heard those prayers. One prayer the Father granted, the other he denied: Patroclus would drive the onslaught off the ships- that much Zeus has granted, true, but denied him safe and sound return from battle.
ReplyDeleteThis reminds of the stories from the Bible. Many people pray to God for help with the problems that occur in their day to day life, but Achilles was praying for help to change the outcome of the war. Zeus answered his prayer but did not give him exactly what he wanted. This is a good example of the will of God, he gives you what he wants you to have, not what you want.
"Cronus'son has entangled me in madness, blinding ruin-Zeus is a harsh, cruel god. He vowed to me long ago, he bowed his head that I should never embark for home till I had brought the walls of Illium crashing down. But now, I see, he only plotted brutal treachery: now he commands me back to Argos in disgrace."
ReplyDeleteThis was a passage I wouldn't expect to find in the Bible because it's basically Agamemnon calling Zeus or God a lier. God promised me something and now he's not giving it to me. Agamemnon is blaming his losses in battle on Zeus instead of taking responibility for his own shortcoming.
Pages 254 to 255 when the old man is speaking to Agamemnon in reference to Achilles.
ReplyDelete" I urged you against it, strenuously. But you, you gave way to your overbearing anger, disgraced a great man the gods themselves esteem-- you seized his gift of honor and keep her still. But even so, late as it is, let us contrive to set all this to rights, to bring him round with gifts of friendship and warm, winning words."
a good quote that i think would be in the bible. Agamemnon, because of this quote, thinks that trying to win Achilles over is a good idea.
Joseph Adam
And Agamemnon the lord of men consented quickly:
ReplyDelete"That's no lie, old man-a full account you give
of all my acts of madness. Mad, blind I was!
Not even I would deny it.
Why look, that man is worth an entire army,
the fighter Zeus holds dear with all his heart-
how he exalts him now and mauls Achaea's forces!
But since I was blinded, lost in my own inhuman rage,
now, at last, I am bent on setting things to rights:
I'll give a priceless ransom paid for friendship."
Since Agamemnon realizes that he was going a bit crazy, he wants to set some things right. Even in the Bible, there have been other people who have realized that they had done wrong, they then try and set some things right by trying to do some good even though bad events may have occured.
"And There it rested . . . his handsome, well-wrought cup. No other man would drink the shining wine from its glowing depths, nor would Achilles pour the wine to any other god, none but Father Zeus. Lifting it from the chest he purified it with sulphur crystals first then rinsed it out with water running clear, washed his hands and filled it bright with wine. And then, taking a stand before his lodge, he prayed, pouring the wine to earth and scanning the high skies . . ." (16.265-274)
ReplyDeleteAchilles went through much preparation before appealing to Zeus for help. This prayer ritual reminds me of Elijah preparing his alter on Mount Carmel in front of the people and the prophets of Baal. There was pouring and sacrifice and solemnity. There were many preparations before the prayer was actually offered in both instances - Elijah asking for fire from heaven and Achilles asking for victory and safety for his friend.
"Patroclus--who was the first you slaughtered, who the last when the great gods called you down to death? First Adrestus, then Autonous, then Echeclus, then Perimus, Megas' son, Epistor and Melanippus, then in a flurry Elasus, Mulius and Pylartes--he killed them all but the rest were bend on flight."
ReplyDeleteThis is just one of many passages dealing with the exploits of the heroes in the Iliad. I think that all the passages that include the main heroes of the Achaeans and the Trojans and their prowess in battle remind me of those in the Bible. Even the way they introduce them in their regiments. Achilles, Patroclus, Hector, Sarpedon, Diomedes, Great and Little Ajax, and Odysseus are just a few of these great heroes highlighted in the Iliad.
The stories I'm reminded most of when reading about these heroes are those of David's mighty warriors in the Bible. Here is to give but one example of just one chief, Josheb-Basshebeth, in David's ranks.
"These are the names of the mighty men whom David had: Josheb-Basshebeth the Tachmonite, chief among the captains. He was called Adino the Eznite, because he had killed eight hundred men at one time." (2 Samuel 23:8)
~Aaron Johnston
"Here me all you gods and goddesses too, as i proclaim what the heart inside me urges. Let no lovely goddess and no god either try to fight against my strict decree. All submit to it now, so all the more quickly I can bring this violent business to an end. And any god I catch, breaking ranks with us, eager to go help the Trojans or Achaeans-back he comes to Olympus, whipped by the lightning, eternally disgraced. Or I will snatch and hurl him down to the mark of Tartarus half the world away,..."
ReplyDeleteThis strikes me as a variation of something I'd expect from the bible. A warning from god commanding something and threatening an eternal punishment.
Zeus also goes on to show how much more powerful he is than all the other gods. Which just reminds me of god proclaiming he is the one true god.
-Wyatt Loftesness
"Thus did he speak, and his saying pleased them well. Men-servents poured water over the hands of the guests, while pages filled the mixing bowls with wine and water, and handed it round after giving every man his drink offerings; then, when they had made their offerings and had drunk each as much as he was minded the envoys set out..."
ReplyDeleteMuch like the bible here is what seems to be a "good luck" party. Something that may not seem that significant at first, but does give us a glimpse at the history of the Greek peoples. Much like the bible the iliad is giving us a glimpse into what would appear to be a fairly common ritual. A quite minor detail at first glance but a fairly specific detail of military life when looked into closer.
At the end of book VII when the Trojans and Achaeans agree to burn the corpses of their dead, the Achaeans began to dig a trench. They used the corpse burning as a diversion to put a rampart against their ships and hide the trench they began to dig. Poseidon noticed this and immediately alerted Zeus,
ReplyDelete"Father Zeus, is there a man on the whole wide earth who still informs the gods of all his plans, his schemes? Don't you see? Look there, the long-haired Achaeans have flung that rampart up against their ships, around it they have dug an enormous deep trench and never offered the gods a hundred splendid bulls, but its fame will spread as far as the light of dawn! And men will forget those ramparts I and Apollo reared for Troy in the old days--for the hero Laomedon--we broke our backs with labor."
This describes Poseidon, and the other gods, as jealous. The gods do not want man to do anything glorious without passing the credit skyward. The Christian Bible also depicts God as jealous. However, obviously, there is only one god in Christianity whereas there are many in Homer's poems. Both books show that one should not hide anything from god, or not give thanks, ask permission, or pray for assistance and success. If one does slight against god(s), one can expect retribution sent down from a jealous god, craving attention, respect, and renown.
"But sprinting closer toKing Odysseus' fleet where the Argives met and handed down their laws, the grounds where they built their altars to the gods."
ReplyDeleteThis portion reminds me of the bible when they talk of Mt. Zion where Moses handed down the ten commandments. It is talking about a sacred place, or an important place in history. This helps people at a later time know where to go to find this important place and is a sort of marker or spiritual hub.
-John Kath
"Then each man, lifting his own two-handled cup, poured it out to the gods, and back they went along the ships..."
ReplyDeleteThis particular part shows a similarity to the Christain Bible, particularly the old testiment. Here in Homer's Iliad these people of Achaea were believing in a sort of sacrificing in order to get the gods to favor their side. This happened quite a bit in the old testament before armies therein went to war.
-Jefferson Gunderson
" And Diomedes lord of the war cry stepped forward, "Here is your man. Right here, not far to seek. If you'll only hear me out and take my lead, not glare at me in resentment, each of you, since i am the youngest born in all our ranks"
ReplyDeleteThis reminds me of the story of David and Goliath, a story of a small boy taking on a giant. Agamemnon had no idea what to do so he asked for the help of anyone with a better idea.
Tom Quigg