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For Tuesday's class, please read the final chapters of the Iliad (Books XVIII-XXIV). I would suggest you read this excellent (and short) summary of the Iliad first. You can then concentrate on finding evidence to address the following prompt rather than trying to figure out the story line.Christians and Jews turn to the Bible as a source of comfort in difficult circumstances: "Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil." Does Homer offer any similar consolation? Are there key lines here showing how one can/should face loss, fear, death, and destruction?
I believe that Homes does offer some similar types of consolaion to those who are going through hard time and facing loss. One line in paticular that stood out to me was "I am agony--mother of grief and greatness--O m child! Yes, i gave birth to a flawless, might son...the splendor of heroes, and he shot up like a young branch, like a fine tree I readred him---the orchard's crowning glory---ut only to send him off in the beaked ships to Troy to battle Trojans! never again will I embrace him striding home through the doors of Peleus' house. And long as I have him with me, still alive, looking into the sunlight, he is racked with anguish And I, I go to his side---nothing I do can help him. Nothing,, But go I shall, to see my darling boy to hear what grief has come to break his heart while he hold bak from battle."
ReplyDeleteI see this as a mother who is grieving but yet being brave and understanding about the situation.
-Alicyn Even
I think Homer puts a lot of similar passages into the Illiad, especially about fear. One passage inperticular is "Not a word of retreat. You'll never persuade me. It's not my nature to shrink from battle, cringe in fear with the fighting strength still steady in my chest." The passage was spoken by Diomedes when Sthenelus advised him to fall back when Pandarus and Aeneas charged him. A few lines farther down Diomedes says "one more thing-take it to hear, I tell you if part of Athena's plan give me the honor to kill them both."
ReplyDeleteThis line is important because it shows why Diomedes is not afraid to charge into battle. It's an honor to serve Athena and do as she wishes. If he dies he dies he will do so honoring the gods would have been what Diomedes wanted. He shouldn't be afarid of doing to something he was meant to do.
"The father of men and gods began to address them: "You have come to Olympus now, immortal Thetis, for all your grief- what unforgettable sorrow seizes on your heart. I know it well myself."
ReplyDeleteI feel that this would give comfort becuase it shows someone else sharing your pain, and you do not need to handle it all on your own. after giving comfort the passage goes on to give a mission to Thetis for which she spreads the comfort of these words. pg 592
"Priam prayed in his rich resounding voice: "Father Zeus! Ruling over us all from Ida, god of greatness, god of glory! Send me a bird of omen, your own wind-swift messenger, the dearest bird in the world to your prophetic heart, the strongest thing on wings-clear on the right so I can see that sign with my own eyes and trust my life to it as I venture down to Achaea's ships and the fast chariot-teams!"
ReplyDeleteAnd Zeus in all his wisdom heard that prayer and straightaway the Father launched an eagle-truest of Zeus's signs that fly the skies-.....All looked up, overjoyed--the people's spirits lifted."
This shows Priam praying for an answer from Zeus and Zeus answering that prayer. This is like the Bible in that people prayer to God in time of need and God answering our prayers.
Michael Abu-Sirriya
JEREMY BEULAH- Book 22 "Take thought of all manner of valor: now you must be spearman and a bold warrior"
ReplyDeleteThis quote is from Achilles to Hector on not fearing his death by Achilles, with Achilles godlike abilities and for Hector to fight him, and having no fear of dying from his hands(Achilles)and telling Hector to fight with honor and no fear.
"But Achilles kept on grieving for his friend, the memory burning on...and all-subduing sleep could not take him, not now, he turned and twisted, side to side, he longed for Patroclus' manhood, his gallant heart" (588).
ReplyDeleteAchillies is mourning the loss of his friend. However, Achilles is ridiculed for acting this way. "Achilles has lost all pity! No shame in this man" (589-590). This shows that one should not mourn for a loss to much but instead should be noble and accept death.
Jon Redmond
"But the pyre would not burn, and Achilles did not know waht to do. At last he stood well away from the smouldering heap and prayed to North Wind and West Wind promising them good sacrifices; and a libation he pourd from his golden goblet, praying them to come and make the wood quickly catch fire, to burn the bodies. Iris heard his prayers, and flew quickly to the Winds with her message."
ReplyDeleteI think that any example of a prayer being answered is a source of comfort. I think it helps to know that there is someone more powerful than you who is listening and is sometimes willing to help.
-Brianna Hamil
Courage, Achilles! Why such fear, such terror? Not with a pair like us to urge you on - gods-in-arms sent down with Zeus's blessings, I and Pallas Athena. It's not your fate . . . (21.325-327)
ReplyDeleteAchilles had been attacking the Trojans confident that his death would only come at the city walls, not out in the plains. But as he battles the River Scamander, Achilles loses heart and cries out for help from Zeus. Poseidon and Athena rush to his aid to rally his spirits. They don't pluck him out of his predicament but speak the above "bracing words" (21.323) to him. They also give him a command that after he kills Hector, he must go back to the ships. After their pep talk, "Achilles rampaged on with the gods' strong command driving him down the plain . . ." (21.338)
Even though Athena later gave his heart "enormous strength" (21.346) and Hera intervened to stop the river, Achilles was already raging on to fight Hector, his resolve renewed.
Although one might lose heart when it looks like death draws close, remembering that help is near and refocusing on the goal can renew one's strength and resolve to press forward.
“At last, when young Dawn with her rose-red fingers shone once more, the people massed around illustrious Hector’s pyre…and once they’d gathered, crowding the meeting grounds, they first put out the fires with glistening wine, wherever the flames still burned in all their fury. Then they collected the white bones of Hector – all his brothers, his friends-in-arms, mourning, and warm tears came streaming down their cheeks. They placed the bones they found in a golden chest, shrouding them round and round in soft purple cloths. They quickly lowered the chest in a deep, hollow grave and over it piled a cope of huge stones closely set, then hastily heaped a barrow, posted lookouts all around for fear the Achaean combat troops would launch their attack before the time agreed. And once they’d heaped the mound they turned back home to Troy, and gathering once again they shared a splendid funeral feast in Hector’s honor, held in the house of Priam, king by will of Zeus.
ReplyDeleteAnd so the Trojans buried Hector breaker of horses.”
This is how the Iliad ends, and it is a fitting end. It also offers comfort to the reader/listener. A person could take solace from the fact that although somebody dies, other lives continue to go on. It is important to honor the one who has died, but it is important to remember that other lives need to be lived, and the best way to honor the dead is by living your own life.
Homer may not have put it so plainly, saying that one can find comfort in the gods, but they did pay attention to mortal affairs. Obviously, in Achilles case, the circumstances are unique, as his mother is a goddess, but it is still a good example:
ReplyDelete"Achilles suddenly loosed a terrible, wrenching cry and his noble mother heard him, seated near her father, the Old Man of the Sea in the salt green depths, and she cried out in turn. And the immortal sea-nymphs gather round their sister, all the Nereids dwelling down the sounding depths, they all came rushing now..."
Of course a mother, even a goddess, will react to her son's suffering, but other mystical figures react to Achilles pain. The message I draw out of this is simple: You aren't alone.
Courage anguish for all that armor-sweep it from your mind. If only I could hide him away from pain and death, that day his grim destiny comes to take Achilles, as surely as glorious armor shall be his.
ReplyDeleteI look at this quote as using courage as a way to the fear of pain and death.
Joseph Adam
"Old Phoenix, you venerable old man,
ReplyDeleteif only Athena would give me strength,
defend me from this shower of weapons,
I'd be happy to stand above Patroclus,
protecting him. For his death has touched my heart.
But Hector has the power of deadly fire.
He won't stop cutting men down with his bronze, 690
for Zeus is giving him the glory."
Menelaus' words pleased the bright-eyed goddess,
Athena, for he'd first prayed to her of all the gods.
She put strength into his shoulders and his knees.
Then in his chest she set the persistence of a gnat, [570]
which, no matter how much one brushes it away
from someone's skin, keeps on biting—it finds human blood
so sweet—with that stamina she filled up his dark heart."
This is similar because it shows how when things are down, and there is a huge obstacle in your way, and you have nothing giving you strength and the odds are stacked up against you, and than the Gods, in this case Menelaus or Pallasgives him the strength to fight and gives him power.
Tom Quigg
Achilles says, "My dear comrade's dead-Patroclus-the an I loved beyond all other comrades, loved as my own life-I've lost him-Hector's killed him..."
ReplyDeleteThetis answers, "You're doomed to a short life, my son, from all you say! For hard on the heels of Hector's death your death must come at once-"
Achilles bursts out, "Then let me die at once..."
It shows how he was able to accept the high price of death to achieve his goal, even with Thetis telling him his death was certain.
The glistening-footed Thetis reassured him:"O my child, wipe these worries from you mind. I'll find a way to protect him from those swarms, the vicious flies that devour men who fall in battle."
ReplyDeleteThetis was reassuring Achilles that even if he was to die in battle his body would not rot away or become food for the flies. Not having to think about your body rotting away must have been a huge relief for Achilles as he prepared to head into battle.
In the last book of the Iliad, Zeus sees Priam and the rest of the Trojans grieving both over Hector's death and the way in which Achilles treats his corpse. He feels compassion for Priam and sends Thetis with a warning for her son, and Iris with a message for Priam:
ReplyDelete"I am a messenger from Zeus, who far away cares for you much and pities you. The Olympian bids you ransom Prince Hector...Your are not to fear death or to be anxious at all. Zeus will provide for that by sending Argeiphontes (Hermes) as your escort, and he shall lead you as far as Achilles. Even when he shall lead you into the hut, neither Achilles nor any one else will kill you, for he will prevent them."
The Greeks could take comfort in knowing, even in the midst of great tragedy, that the gods could feel compassion for them, and would right the wrongs they saw occurring.
Achilles says: "For my won death, I'll meet it freely - whenever Zeus and the other deathless gods would like to bring it on! Not even Heracles fled his death, for all his power, favorite son as he was to Father Zeus the King. Fate crushed him, and Hera's savage anger. And I too, if the same fate waits for me. . . I'll lie in peace, once I've gone down to death."
ReplyDeleteIn this passage, Achilles is saying that when it is his time to die, he will accept it because it was meant to be. Death is not something to fear because, in the end, we all die.
I also agree that Homer’s characters use their gods in times of need in searching for comfort. Throughout the text, frequently they’ll pray to their gods, requesting comfort in whatever they feel necessary at the time. For example prior to the battle Odysseus said the following prayer to Athene:
ReplyDelete“Hear me, daughter of Zeus who drives the storm-loud, you that stand by me in all my adventures and never forget me when I go into action. Tonight, Athene, show me your special favor, and grant that we come back to the ships with some great deed to our credit, which will give the Trojans something to think about.”
Another example of prayers in times of need occur later in the text. Book sixteen describes Achilles drinking a special wine only used when praying to ‘Father Zeus’:
“Lord Zeus, god of Dodona, god of the Pelasgi, you that live far way and rule over wintry Dodona, surrounded by your interpreters the Helloi, who leave their feet unwashed and sleep on the ground; you listened when I prayed to you before and honored me by striking a mightily blow at the Greek army. Now grant me another wish…”
This passage is especially interesting because it recognizes the Christen idea of ‘ask and you shall receive.’ Achilles says that his god listened to his prayers previously and now he also needs another favor. Even though sometimes not all prayers are answered, they are always answered in the best way for a person’s life; as also in the case of Homer’s text.
In the last few pages of the entire epic on Ilium there is a great message of hope. This message is that there is compassion deep within everyones' soul - even if this person is your feirce enemy. "All will be done, old Priam...I will hold our attack as long as you require." Achilles says to the old king of Troy in despair over his son's death. Achilles, although Priams son killed his best friend Patroclus, still had enough love in his heart to spair Priam more pain. This is a very strong message and a great sign of hope for mankind's ability to get along one day. In my opinion, this passage (and end of the Illiad) is very similiar to the concept of 1 Corintians 13:13 where the gift of love is emphasized above mostly everything else.
ReplyDelete- Jefferson Gunderson
Achilles broke in quickly-"How can I go to war? The Trojans have my gear. And my dear mother told me I must not arm for battle, not till I see her coming back with my own eyes-she vowed to bring me burnished arms from the god of fire. I know of no other armor. Whose gear could I wear? None but Telamonian Ajax's giant shield. But he's at the front, I'm sure, engaging Trojans, slashing his spear to save Patroclus' body."
ReplyDeleteQuick as the wind the goddess had a plan: "We know-we too-they hold your famous armor. Still, just as you are, go out to the broad trench and show yourself to the Trojans. Struck with fear at the sight of you, they might hold off from attack and Achaea's fighting sons get second wind, exhausted as they are...Breathing room in war is all too brief."
This is just like the bible passage. Achilles is asking what to do in this time of despair and the gods reply with basically telling him to walk right into a valley of death and have no fear! Its almost as if it is taken right from the Iliad. The gods message to Achilles is helping him get through desperate times, telling him to have no fear, and to have faith. Just like in the bible.
Roy Casey Oberle
Wyatt Loftesness
ReplyDeleteSo I just remembered that I did not put my name on mine. I commented at 10:54 PM of the 12th