Plutarch's
Life of Lycurgus, a work written more than 500 years after the time of Lycurgus, isn't a terribly reliable source, but it at least reflects what many of the Greeks thought about the earliest days of Sparta and the great Spartan law giver. The
abridged version here is well worth the 10 or fifteen minutes it will take you to read. However, to get a better picture of Sparta, you should also read this
Sparta Reconsidered article.
Comment on either of these two sources here, noting what the source suggests is unusual in Spartan society and why that unusual feature may have well suited Spartan need. If you comment on both linked selections, please put your responses in separate comments: you'll get extra credit for both.
This is from the abridged version:
ReplyDelete"When the young man reached the age of thirty, the couple was allowed to live together openly and to set up a household. With seeing each other so difficult and rare, they always came together with a healthy appetite for love. And when they parted, it was always early enough that there was no disgust from being together too long. There was always some desire left unsatisfied."
I think that this shows how unusual the Spartan Society is, but if it works for them I guess that is a good thing that suited their needs.
-Alicyn Even
"Because Sparta's male citizens were required to devote their lives to the military and other forms of public service, Sparta's matrons ran the estates of their husbands. This meant that Spartan wives controlled the family wealth – and, in effect, the entire Spartan agricultural economy."
ReplyDeleteThis quote shows one example of how Spartan society was much different from the rest of Greece. The role of women in Sparta was much different then in many parts of Greece. In Sparta Reconsidered, it said that in many parts of Greece women were looked at as a curse, but not in Sparta. The quote shows that Spartan women were responsible for the finances of the family and a major part of the Spartan economy. The women had to do this because the men had to devote themselves to the military.
In the "Sparta Reconstructed" article I got to see how the Women were treated differently from the rest of the greek countries. One of the differences that the Spartans did than the other Greeks is that they let the women mature more before they were married to someone. This difference gave the women a higher chance to survive the child birth process. Also the spartans gave their women more responsibilities at home. Giving the women more power gives the men more freedom to dedicate themselves to military or other public services.
ReplyDeleteBaker Haar
“In a frequently quoted incident, the wife of King Leonidas was asked why Spartan women were the only women in Greece who "ruled" their husbands. Gorgo replied, ‘Because we are the only women who give birth to men.’ In other words, only men with the self-confidence to accept women as equals were men at all.”
ReplyDeleteAlthough probably a bit stereotypical, as a female it’s difficult not to choose this quote. Throughout history, the role of women is either undermined or insignificant, but this is not the case for the Spartans. These ladies seem to have a universal spunk and understand perfectly their importance to maintaining a stable society. Such role is not underestimated by the men, as in the case of most other societies. Specifically, this quote sticks out because it also exemplifies a witty Spartan woman. It’s crazy/impress to think that these people, especially living during this era, would have such a progressive way of thinking regarding so many different aspects.
This is from the abridged version:
ReplyDelete"His solution was to ban ownership of any gold and silver and to allow only money made of iron. The iron coins were dipped in vinegar to make them worthless."
I thought Lycurgus's idea to do this was unusual, but it had alot of positive effects. There wasn't any more robbery and bribery. All useless occupations like fraud, fortune-telling and prostitution died out because there wasn't any gold and silver in the country. So overall there was no luxury anymore and the difference between the rich and poor kind of disappeared. The Spartan society was more mixed together; they even ate together in public. I think this was good for their society because it unified them more and made the Spartan society strong.
Michael Abu-Sirriya
In the Sparta Reconsidered article it really showed how different Sparta society in regards to women was different from the rest of the Greek places. Even when babies were born the girls were given the same food as the boys and they got fresh air too. Not so in other Greek places. I think this shows that equality was more important to them and they knew that if they treated Spartan infants the same, and educated boys and girls the same, let the women rule the financial affairs of their husbands, and so forth, it would all work together to form a stronger society.
ReplyDeleteMichael Abu-Sirriya
JEREMY BEULAH:
ReplyDeleteThe Sparta Reconsidered was unusual in a since because of how the women in all the other Greek palace were treated, because in Sparta women had a way more freedom like able to have a voice in public, controlled the house because the men were gone for war and basically controlled the wealth. Which made the the Spartans to be hated because they gave women more freedom and was seen as equals.
Well it was extremely unusual how much power and status women had in Spartan society. Women in no other culture had such rights and freedoms as Spartan women. Another thing that made this odd was the fact that this is something that wasn't seen in any culture until hundreds of years later.
ReplyDeleteR. Casey Oberle
The Life of Lycurgus is an amazing writing. Amongst many of his ingenious methods of restoration, his tactic of closing the gap between the rich and the poor was truly remarkable. By taking away all the gold and silver coins and replacing currency with vinegar-soaked iron coins, hoarding of this 'useless' material was pointless. It minimized greed and dispersed the wealth evenly, stopping upheavals and riots between classes in their tracks and it restored much needed peace to Sparta. This act blew my mind, and could lend wisdom on how to correct modern economic inconsistencies and flaws perhaps. Tally sticks over in England (though not modern) worked to the same effect, and for quite some time stopped this seemingly inevitable gap from forming, lessening almost all friction between the different classes. They say it was the best currency ever in England - wooden sticks!
ReplyDeleteAnother great idea from Lycurgus was his method of keeping the men away from their wives more often than not. A lot of times I see couples that are 'burnt out' on each other and the romance is no longer there because they spend too much time looking at each other instead of looking in the same direction together. Lycurgus knew what he was doing - the love, romance, and lust would always be between the couples and they would not fight over petty insignificant things when they must cherish the limited time they have together. A good indicator of a healthy society is how the women are viewed and how good the marriages are. Lycurgus was the great Spartan law giver indeed!
- Jefferson Gunderson
From the Abridged version,"All useless occupations were banned in Sparta. This law was hardly necessary, because along with gold and silver, all of the evil creatures that accompany them went away too. Who would come to practice fraud, fortune-telling, prostitution, jewelry, or the other trades of luxury and larceny, in a country where there was no gold and silver money? So luxury, deprived little by little of the fuel that fed it, gradually died out. The rich had no advantage over the poor because wealth was useless."
ReplyDeleteI think this is a little bit strange because it's weird to think that the king could get everyone on equal footing like that. It was an odd idea, but it worked.
-Brianna
In Sparta Reconsidered, I thought it was odd that women did not typically marry men that were a lot older than they were. Everywhere else in Greece, a woman could be married to a man much older than her. I think Marrying someone closer to your own age is more stable and better for society in general. While this was odd for Greeks at the time, it actually made Sparta ahead of its time.
ReplyDelete-Brianna Hamil
"A hundred and thirty years after the death of Lycurgus, a council of five ephors took executive power from the kings. When King Theopompus, in whose reign the ephors were established, was scolded by his wife for leaving his son less royal power than he had inherited, he replied: "No, it is greater, because it will last longer." With their decision-making power reduced, the Spartan kings were freed of the jealousy of the people. They never went through what happened in nearby Messene and Argos, where the kings held on so tight to every last bit of power that in the end they wound up losing it all."
ReplyDeleteUnder Lycurgus, Spartan government was increased, which eventually led to a decrease in power of the kings. This is very unusual for this period. During this period kings had the most power in any kingdom. However, in Spartan decreasing the power of the king and giving it to 5 separate men allowed the kings to be admired more. This is because if a decree was set out that was unfavorable to the Spartans the king was not completely to blame. Therefore, the Spartans could rally behind the king easier because they admired him more.
~ Robbi Kannas
Previous post from the abridged version.
ReplyDeleteFrom Sparta Reconsidered:
"Spartan women could inherit and so transfer wealth. Athenian women, by contrast, were never heiresses; all property passed to the next male kinsman, who might at most be required to marry the heiress in order to claim the inheritance – an arrangement that often led men to discard their previous wife, although she was blameless, just to get their hands on the inheritance of a kinsman."
In Sparta, women held a very powerful position in society unlike the rest of the women in Greece. Since Spartan women could inherit wealth, there was no reason for a man to leave his wife in hopes of acquiring wealth that a women was set to acquire. Therefore, the status of women in Sparta made marriages stronger and more legitimate in Sparta verses the rest of Greece.
~ Robbi Kannas