Because we are running out of time, I won't have as much time for class discussion as I would like: mostly lectures from here on out. However, in preparing the Greek philosophy question for the final exam, it will really help if you read a few selections from some of the philosophers we will be discussing.Plato's "Meno" is a good place to start. You can find online editions at either of the links below:
Meno at Digital Classics
Meno at Free Library
Can virtue be taught? The apparent answer in this dialogue is no. But does reading the dialogue help at all in understanding/achieving virtue? If so, how?
In this reading it really does not help me understand virtue, but I am guessing virtue is the future, and we may never know what is next and that God only knows the future, and knows each indivduals virtue.
ReplyDeleteAfter Socrates has the man 'recollect' the geometry problems, he introduces an essential view on persistent inquiry "...one must search for the things one does not know...". Although by the end of the discussion any means of being taught virtue or even understanding it have been deducted, the quote above jumps out at me. The main point of Socrates's geometric demonstration was to show that all information is within the soul already and only needs to be 'recollected' into the conscious mind to achieve understanding of it. Yes, he claimed that virtue cannot be taught because everyone evidently lacks the total understanding needed to teach it, but when this extremely insightful man says the quote above might be one of the only things he knows for sure to make one "better" it is emphasized quite heavily. Theoretically, if all information is within our immortal souls then acquisition of knowledge (the only alternative to virtue other than correct opinion) could be sufficiently achieved and thus is a possibility Meno and he seemed to overlook at the end of the discussion. That's as far as I can get in regards to the achieving process. Time to check my understanding.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the Socratic method of this book goes, virtue appears to be interchangeable with wisdom because wisdom directs the soul's desires in the path of good instead of folly. It is not knowledge specifically because then it could be taught. What is it exactly? In this book it boils down to "a gift from the gods", but I think that is an over-generalization. If, as Socrates said, the soul basically is comprised of all things, then why do only certain individuals receive virtue? Is the potential for everyone there but it is a matter of a free-will-powered pursuit? Could this be an answer as to why knowledge-based wisdom cannot be taught to those not willing to look within themselves for further explanation?
- Jefferson Gunderson
I think that this dialouge may do a good job at explaining what virtue is but not a very good job to explain how one would really achieve any virtue at all. "Soc. How fortunate I am, Meno! When I ask you for one virtue, you present me with a swarm of them" To me it is never really clear how one would go about achieving those virtues. Not everyone may have the same virtues or not achieve all virtues.
ReplyDelete-Alicyn Even
To achieve virtue is a difficult task, partially because defining virtue is necessary to do so. Plato’s “Meno” struggles to identify if even exactly what is considered virtuous; obviously there are some moral values that seem to overlap eras and cultures alike but if even the greatest thinkers struggle to precisely define it may be safe to assume that there are some things bigger than a simple definition. Plato also does seem to emphasize that virtue is inheritably obtained, not taught; yet, the disputing conversation between Socrates and Meno promotes further discussion about virtues. It’s arguable that the dialogue is helpful because so much is left to interpretation but I personally think it does aid in somewhat of a better understanding. For instance, Plato emphasizes the importance of knowledge. He quotes Socrates saying “… True opinion is a good guide to correct action of knowledge” and Meno disputing “… he who has knowledge is always right, but he who has right opinion will sometimes be right, sometimes not.”
ReplyDeleteIn the beginning and in the end of Meno, Socrates explains why virtue cannot be taught, but teaching virtue is not the point that Socrates is making, he is trying to understand virtue by defining what is not virtue, by taking Meno's Thesis of what is virtue and destroying it. Meno even says that "I used to be told, before I knew you, that you were always doubting yourself and making others doubt; and now you are casting your spells over me, and I am simply getting bewitched and enchanted, and am at my wits' end."
ReplyDeleteJoe Adam
In this conversation with Meno, Socrates is doing what he does best. He is talking to someone who is believed to be an expert on what virtue is and showing him how he is wrong through asking him for a definition of virtue. Although the dialogue searches for the definition of virtue, it is clear that Socrates does not believe virtue can be taught. "Then, Meno, the conclusion is that virtue comes to the virtuous by the gift of God. But we shall never know the certain truth until, before asking how virtue is given, we enquire into the actual nature of virtue."
ReplyDelete- Robbi Kannas
I do not think that virtue can be specifically taught because I don't think there is one totally correct definition for virtue. However, I think that by making Meno answer more questions about virtue, Socrates is making Meno think more about what virtue really is. This method gets Meno (and the reader) to think more in detail about what virtue is and what virtue is not. This creates a better understanding of something that cannot be taught or completely defined.
ReplyDelete-Brianna Hamil
I don't think virtue can be taught. I believe it is an attribute one has to earn from themselves. It is also hard to teach a virtue because what exactly is a virtue? I think everyone has a different opinion on them. Is perserverance a virtue or is patience? Maybe both of them but it depends on the opinions of people and people's opinions vary. If both of those are virtues, how does one teach them to another? I believe they have to be acquired at birth or by one's own means. This is why I do not believe virtues can be taught.
ReplyDeleteR. Casey Oberle
After reading this dialogue, I must say no, virtue cannot be taught. On the other hand, it can be learned, through observation and experience. One cannot learn virtue simply through what someone else says. Like many other lessons in life, virtues must be discovered by each person.
ReplyDeleteI think the dialogue helps to understand the complexity of virtues but does not really help one achieve virtues. The dialogue shows how difficult it is to define a virtue and how we can see the different expectations we have on people.
After I have read this Dialogue i do not believe that virtue can be taught becuase you have to live though things inorder to gain the life experience to have virtue otherwise you do not have the same outlook on certain things. It is very hard to know what a virtue is exactly so how is one suppost to teach it if it really is not definded.
ReplyDeleteKatelyn Pietz
After reading the Dialogue, I believe that virtue is something we are all born with and if it is directed in the right path, we may maintain it and make it stronger. However, you can't simply teach virtue because virtue varies from person to person. If we guide someone in the right direction or down the path to good virtues than who is to say that we are not learning the importance of virtue on our own? I believe one gains more virtue by living and by learning. I loved the reading. Meno will be a favorite of mine from now on.
ReplyDeleteBy the way TaSunke 21 is Jennifer Mellette. I forgot to put my name in my posts but this is my blogger ID. I apologize for the confusion.
ReplyDeleteVirtue is a tricky thing to define. I now don't know what virtue is exactly after reading Meno. Vitue cannot be taught but in a way it can be passed on. Every one has the ability to be virtuos and being pointed in the right directions by a peer, adult, or parent increases those chances of it occurring. In the end it is up to the individual whether or not they become virtuos.
ReplyDeleteVirtue can be taught to some extent depending on what it is. For example, one can learn to be good and do good deeds and be patient while doing , observing and receiving them. I've technically understood virtue as doing good deeds for and with others and being patient and understanding towards a lot of things. It also depends on whether or not someone wants to be virtuous, although someone could be virtuous without knowing so and still want to understand how to be virtuous.
ReplyDelete